Warning: This story contains plot details from Sundays series finale ofVeep.
On Sunday night,the series finaleof HBOs Emmy-winning, cynical-to-its-corroded-core comedy answered: To hell.
And theres no coming back.
Credit: Colleen Hayes/HBO
So much for Labor Day loyalty.
At what price victory?
Shell carry forth, but that moment in the White House is the punishment.
Colleen Hayes/HBO
The coming to terms with what youve done and what you did is somewhat horrific.
Its the darkest moment for Selina and for the show.
Originally that was not happening.
Colleen Hayes/HBO
So again, it wouldve been Jonahs fault that she didnt get what she wanted.
And that sat with me over the time of when Julia hadcancer.
I started to wonder why Selina Meyer was being punished.
Colleen Hayes/HBO
Shes willing to get rid of Jaffar [Usman Ally], arguably the love of her life.
What else could she do that would be even worse than breaking up with Jaffar?
Obviously, it affects millions of same-sex couples, and its horrific.
Jeff Kravitz/FilmMagic
The same-sex marriage [ban], besides being horrible, unto itself is horrible because its Catherine.
But its still Catherine.
So what is the worst thing that she could do that is unlike anything shes ever done?
When push comes to shove, shes a scorpion.
And its not easy for her, but its not as hard as it probably should be, either.
Do you need me to fly back to New York and get a comb you left there?
He was ready to do whatever she asked.
In some ways, the lack of her courage to ask him almost makes it worse.
That cant hit her until the White House.
So its this dance to find the perfect level of horror there.
Then she does four million things with her face and I get to sit back and revel in it.
Like she instinctively yelled out for Gary and then realizes it.
Then of course, like all bullies because she is a bully the best defense is a good offense.
I mean, its all new people.
She has a new Amy [in Michelle, played by Rhea Seehorn].
So even when shes with people, shes a little bit alone.
Why am I here?Its so many things.
And the realization of:so alone.
For this rotted-out soul, was it all worth it?This is my honest opinion.
I think for the rest of her life she will tell herself it was worth it.
The more the phone rings, the more there are things to do, shes fine.
Despite becoming President, she is paying a price.
On the other hand, he seems completely broken, defeated, and a little bitter.
What is the feeling in that moment?
That was not a healthy relationship in any way, shape, or form.
So why is he there?
I guess in some ways he has no choice.
He has to be there.
But if you watch when he talks about how she wouldve hated the flowers, theres an anger there.
Theres an anger there, like, Im here but f you.
Gary was complicit in this hideous relationship in which he chased affection and validation that was never available.
That being said, hes a simple soul.
Yet, Catherine seemed happier for it.
Like Gary, she was in this toxic relationship with Selina.
And that was the beginning of her real healing.
And its always like, Well, no.
You dont really want Selina to be president, you kind of want Julia to be president.
I mean, its the most vicious thing youve ever seen.
She just reduces him to a puddle of a man.
We do like the long con.
The takedown of Tom James is three years in the making.
A lot of these stories go back to when I and the new writers came into the show.
[Mandel took over showrunning duties from creator Armando Iannucci after season 4.]
And they have had this just crazy ping-pong back-and-forth relationship, and he has constantly screwed her over.
And there have even occasionally been people [who said], Why does she keep falling for it?
And their relationship is also pretty screwed up.
But at the end of the day, she is the winner.
She beats him and beats him badly.
This is the main character of a TV show, and you relish in her horribleness.
He was the one who believed the most in the purity and potential of government.
How did you arrive at that outcome?
And I do think its a little hopeful.
Its meant to be.
But I guess at the end of the day, Im a cynical son of a bitch.
But I guess I have hope.
And President Richard Splett is that expression of hope for the future.
Selina has always hated the limited powers of the vice president.
But she wouldnt do that.
And then says, Im going to run in the third party and f your shit up.
What high or low crime was Jonah impeached for?
And kindly confirm that it was as vice president, not president.He was definitely impeached as vice president.
And my guess is it was a similar sort of financial campaign thing.
At the end of the day, just a small-time guy in a big office.
Sufe Bradshaw returned as Sue to the White House, which was a feel-good surprise in a brutal episode.
How did you get her to return?
And that never came to pass.
It went on the wish list.
We didnt know if it would happen, and certainly everything would have worked without.
So yeah, there was just a lot of joy.
And that scene justplays.
Its been a process of first when her mom dies, little bits about her father.
And then when she was writing the book with Mike, a little bit more about her father.
And you start to realize shes just never really had a father figure.
Obviously, Kevin is just wonderful and devastating and so vulnerable and so caring.
Again, not through emotional words, but just in his support.
Hes sort of saying, Go on out there little girl and unleash the horrors.
Its time to make everybody pay.
We settle all family business.
Its just always been there.
That is a really sharp turn for the character in that day.
Theres a wonderful moment, Anna just sells the hell out of it.
I think maybe what you were expecting is her almost being dismissive of Kent and ready to jump in.
And the camera finds her contemplating it, like struck that its happening.
I did what I was supposed to do.
Maybe its all for the best.
Im not going to use the K word, which is Kellyanne [Conway].
I chose my job, and now Ive been given this opportunity.
If I dont go crazily in, then it invalidates the previous decision.
She was all in.
But at the moment where perhaps it most counted, she does have these regrets.
She, more than anyone, could leave and walk away, and doesnt.
Because the others do, and she doesnt.
Thats the interesting flaw of her.
The Dan-Amy shippers that was never going to happen.
I mean, Dan is with who he wants to be.
Its very specific, and it aint Amy, and it was never going to be Amy.
I think in some ways she found herself a sort of Dan-esque guy.
Not exactly Dan, but Dan-esque.
So thats what she did, which is not exactly healthy.
And so we planted some seeds early on, about them getting drinks.
She just thought that Amy wouldve liked the cut of his jib.
He wouldve been her throw in.
Another sleazy scumbag operator a la Dan.
Dan 2.0 in a different way.
A Dan thats been to prison.
Whose future outcome amused you the most?
And it makes me laugh to no end.
I love the idea that he solved it with three states.
I really do love Mike becoming the Walter Cronkite, the most trusted man in America.
Hes the same guy … just a little grayer here and there, maybe a little tanner.
We definitely liked the idea of what he went into was interesting.
And we went back and forth on a lot of other things.
It was a baby challenge to figure out where Dan should be.
The people she banned are now there.
The second he said it, it was just like, Oh, my God.
Did you reach out to Tom Hanks for his death blessing?
So we were actually in the sound mix of the episode when we were told this.
I dont know when I will respond.
He was a huge fan of the show.
And by the way, on the face of Megan Murphy, [Veeps co-producer in postproduction].
Because that moment she realized she wasnt going to have to change it to something else.
I dont believe he could have stopped us from saying his name.
It would have just had less of the footage ofThe Money Pitand whatnot.
Mike says Tom won four Oscars, so was the fourth forPhiladelphia 2?You think so?
Im a huge fan.
I know people have been waiting for it.
But I doubt were going to get it.
I guess I enjoyed the idea that the threat was in the air.
And I think he honestly was there to pay his respects.
He wasnt there to make some deal.
He legitimately was there to say goodbye.
You took over showrunning duties when Armando left after season 4 and kept up the Emmy-winning tradition.
At some point or another, I think I whispered that she won.
Because I believe he wanted to know.
And then I told him that there was a callback to the pilot.
I think he gets an odd kick out of watching the show.
A cautionary tale for 2020, this season was simply darker and more brutal than ever.
And you showed no mercy with Amys abortion storyline.
I think the world has gotten very horrible.
Thats why we have climate deniers, we have anti-vaxxers, and we are seeing what those things wrought.
Number two, I think there was a sense of, this is the final season.
Lets just take no prisoners.
I wanted to come out and remind people just whatVeepwas.
Weve been gone a year, and were back, and were not taking any prisoners.
But there is no answer.
I dont think an answer would have been satisfying.
The finale had plenty of closure.
But it feels pretty definitive.
But history cannot deny how many times she ran for the presidency and how badly she wanted it.
To read what Louis-Dreyfus and Hale thought of Selinas betrayal of Gary,head over here.
