Because I just am incredibly short-sighted on all those things.
I tried writing a traditional cops-and-robbers movie, a Michael Mann-style bank robbery heist film.
I tried making it more of, like, a couple looking back at 45 years of life.
Credit: Everett Collection
And I just felt like I was not equipped to do any of those.
And so ultimately, I just kind of amused myself with the script.
I just wanted to make the movie lighthearted and to be amusing and fun.
Eric Zachanowich/Fox
[Laughs] I had a bit of a pause about that at one point.
I was like, This is questionable at best.
And probably a bad idea at worst.
Eric Zachanowich/Fox
But definitely I had a moment of pause about that.
Attitudes toward guns have changed a lot.
EW, for instance, doesnt run lead photos of people with guns.
Have your feelings about guns or using guns in your films evolved?
Its something that is on my mind a lot more than it used to be.
Not that they were ever any good.
I have fired a gun once in my life: A .22 rifle, and I hated it.
And I couldnt escape it.
I tried a draft of the script that had no guns in it.
But there is the aspect that this is a true story and this is a guy with a gun.
So, its a tough thing to reconcile, and obviously Im still reconciling it myself at the moment.
It does sound like your attitude has kind of changed toward them as a filmmaker.Not even that.
I mean as a moviegoer.
Or when theyre like firing in slow motion.
Those things were really cool to me.
But I dont like that part of our culture.
The movie became what it became because I did not like writing violence.
I was writing all these action scenes that were disposable bad guys getting shot left and right.
And I would think to myself, Well who were those guys?
What brought them to this point where they die now?
And how awful that they are getting killed without anyone recognizing who they are.
I wish every gun had that.
So, it would be interesting to talk to me on my next movie.
Will I ever make a movie with guns again?
On that note, this movie addresses the mixed nature of Whos the hero?
Casey Afflecks character [detective John Hunt] is deciding if he admires Forrest or wants to catch him.
In one sense, the old man gets to do what he loves to the end.
Did you want to show trauma?Yeah, 100 percent.
If you catch them, it makes it impossible to truly love this character.
And she knows about one or two, but shes like, Do you have kids?
and hes like, Oh, I hope not.
You later find out he just was lying to her face.
Ultimately, he is leaving behind a path of broken hearts and trauma.
But he also was very inconsiderate in doing it.
And thats something that cant be ignored.
He goes in the bank at the end.
But I still always tried to show the repercussions emotionally on the peoples faces, particularly the women.
You also did that with some characters of color.
And thats a small step.
I grew up in Dallas in the 80s.
Its a very diverse place.
Theres nothing in this movie that I think would raise eyebrows in reality.
But sure, yeah, I get it.
Im turning a little bit of color-blindness to history for the sake of this movie.
I think thats okay.
You went fromPetes DragontoA Ghost Story,and then you went into this.
And I also just had this other movie that I really wanted to make, which wasA Ghost Story.
It really felt like a very personal movie.
I think its very unique.
And then I popped back out of that and went back to makeOld Man & the Gun.
So in a way,A GhostStory sort of represents… where Im headed as a filmmaker.
I think its a trilogy Aint Them Bodies Saints,Petes Dragon, andOld Man & the Gun.
But they all just came out out of order.
Structurally, theyre very similar.
WithOld Man & the Gun, I really wanted to push myself and try new things.
I wanted to make a movie where its rougher, its faster.
I just want to make this feel like theyre all part of the same universe.
And maybe the next movies wont be in that universe, or maybe they will.
But definitely, those ones are all of one piece.
Speaking of which, youve worked with Robert Redford twice.
But youve worked with Casey Affleck on three movies now.
What did you want to do new with him?I want him to be funny.
Hes hilarious in person.
But hes got a great sense of fun to him.
And neither of them like to do what people tell them to do.
Nonetheless, theyre wonderful actors to work with.
I wanted the whole movie to be people that I just knew.
I just wanted to be surrounded by friends to make this movie, because I wanted to have fun.
And thats the number-one way to make have fun when youre making a film.
I wanted to see him smile and laugh and be a nice guy on camera.
But youre the one who killed Casey in a car crash inA Ghost Story.
And theres a major car crash inPetes Dragon…Ha, no, youre right!
Im done with car crashes.
Im done with 80s-period cop cars.
Im done with guns.
Done with male protagonists…. Dont quote me on any of that.
What has been your attitude about working with Casey?
Like, theres no way to avoid it.
Its definitely an uncomfortable and unfortunate thing for all sorts of people.
I feel badly for anyone who has been affected by it.
I just want to keep making movies with him.
But I also know that there is a public perception that isnt quite that nuanced.
Nor can it be.
And I have to take that into account.
And you cant discount that either.
So, its a delicate and uncomfortable and necessary conversation.
And its just as vital to recognize the ways in which one may have hurt people in the past.
Thats part of being a human being with the capacity for growth.
Just the amount hes talked about it made me feel much better.
Its not about him.
Hes not putting his name first on these things.
Hes really quietly working to help cause a change in the industry in whatever way he can.
And I think hes realized that.
you better face these things.
And I think he is.
And thats a beautiful thing.
How have you thought of your own efforts in light of that?
And thats something I need to change, that Ive been working towards.
But thats just too easy.
I want to give other people opportunities.
I want help diversify the jot down of stories Im telling.
One of the ways of doing that is bringing new voices into the mix.
The movies bear the influences who work on them.
That film is led by two women.
Does Augustine have an influence on how you approach your decisions?Well, recently, yes.
I was working a script not too long ago.
I showed her the first 50 pages and she was like, Its not good.
And so I had to throw them away, I was like, Yup I think youre right.
And most people cant do that.
It really is making both of us better filmmakers.
I saw the announcement that she just got picked up to direct aHome Alonere-imaginingwith Ryan Reynolds.
So youre making aPeter Panmovie and shes doing something with Ryan Reynolds.
Are you going to be doing anything with that?I read the script and I laughed a lot.
Its a great script.
And as a dyed-in-the-woolHome Alonefan.
We watch the first two every year; we dont watch the third and fourth one.
Even though Scarlett Johanssons great in the third one, those two dont count.
[Laughs]
Its not canon.Yeah, exactly.
If it doesnt have the McCallisters in it, it does not count.
And Im excited for it.
So shes doing that and Im doingPeter Pan.
No guns in Neverland, huh?The pirates have muskets, and Im trying to work those out.
Because its just like, no, Im directing it with swords, itll be so much better.
And everyone will live longer.
Whats the status update in general onPeter Pan?
And I hope that this time next year that were on our way to making that movie.
But of course thats all up to Disney.
But the number-one priority is getting the script right.
Theres a lot of expectations for aPeter Panmovie because people love it.
It has to be personal to me.
And thats why Im still agonizing over every little detail on it.
I know this story like the back of my hand.
Then you sit down and write it.
Part of the problem is that it is so familiar.
The 2003 Universal film is not perfect, but its a great movie, and I love that movie.
And I cant do that movie again.
Youre just like constantly, saying, Okay, culturally what works now?
I mean, Captain Hook has a lot of funny scenes with his pistol.
The originalPeter Panmovies obviously horribly racist, and so that will have to go out the window.
Wed just seenLast of the Mohicans, we were around 9 years old.
And I just want to capture that.
For me, theres something about that that ties intoPeter Panso perfectly.
